A Coffee with Stephanie Rodenkirchen, CEO and Founder of Lotus Group

Join us for a coffee and chat with Stephanie Rodenkirchen, CEO and Founder of Lotus Group.

Born in Seattle but raised in the scenic Okanagan Valley of British Columbia, Stephanie's early life was marked by a passion for soccer. Hear about her time on the BC Provincial team, which led to a soccer scholarship in North Carolina. Though a concussion brought her soccer career to an early end, it opened a new door at UBC, where she joined the Alpine Ski Team and discovered a profound interest in Sociology and the study of the human condition. This newfound passion laid the groundwork for her future in Recruitment and HR.

Stephanie's journey continued as she moved to Alberta in the early 2000s, where she started a family and built a career with Pfizer Pharmaceuticals. As her children grew, she sought a new professional challenge, transitioning into the world of headhunting. Learn about her valuable experience with a local firm and the influential mentors who guided her. This ultimately led to the 2019 inception of Lotus Group, a vision to bring a fresh perspective to the recruitment and HR landscape. Starting as a search firm, Lotus Group has since flourished, evolving into a comprehensive provider of search and recruitment services, HR solutions, and much more. 

Join us to hear Stephanie's unique story and the driving force behind Lotus Group's success.

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Transcript

0:12

Well, hello, everybody, and welcome to another edition of the ABA Coffee In The Park. My name is Cam Milliken, and I am here with my co-host extraordinaire, Jennifer Herrick, the Executive Director of the Acheson Business Association. Hello, Jennifer. Hello, Cam. Well, we are currently recording on an Oilers Playoff Day. Yes, that's right. We are. The Oilers are playing tonight in Los Angeles. They are. And the series is tied at two, and, is that right? It is. Okay, good, because I didn't know I had to make sure. Well, no, because they won the two at home. That's right. They won two. They lost two in LA. Yes. And now they've won two in Edmonton. That's right. And so tonight, they could go up. Or they could go down. I'm very excited about this. You're not wearing your Oilers jersey today. No, it's not. No, I don't normally do that. But here, can I just say, here's my pet peeve. This is my pet peeve. Because we did a pet peeve show a while back. My pet peeve is, why must the game start at 8 o'clock? Too late. Because I need to be in bed by 10. I agree with that. This is not good because the next day is useless. I can't operate. It's far too late. So anyway, note to the oilers, Tim Shipton, could you please move the time to like 4 o'clock, okay, so that I can eat, be in bed and be up the next day. I don't think it's in Tim's control, but it's okay. I don't think so, but Tim's a good guy and thought we'd throw it out there. Anyway, but anyways, Jennifer, this is so exciting. We need to tell everybody that we are coming to you live from The Wall Coffee Roasters, in the heart of beautiful downtown Acheson. That's right, so if you hear any noise behind us, like a coffee machine whirring or people talking or kids screaming. No kids today right now. No, there's no kids right now. Sometimes there's kids but not today. It's all good. No, there's kids, but not today. But it's cause we're live. We are. In the coffee shop. And if you've never been to the coffee shop, you need to come to the coffee shop. 27717 Acheson Road. 27717 Acheson Road, T6. Anyway, that doesn't matter, but just come to the coffee shop, cause that's awesome. And enjoy a coffee. Enjoy a fabulous coffee. Do you know what one of my favorite lattes is right now? I know already. What is it? Cause you get it all the time. I know. I really like it. It's the blueberry honey latte. Yes. You can get that cold or hot. We sampled it on the sample show when we launched the JC. That's right. I love the blueberry honey. A touch of blueberry with a hint of honey. It's just, it's invigorating. It really is. It is. Anyways, Jennifer, tell us about some important people. We want to thank our gold corporate sponsors, which include the Myshak Group of companies, Genics, Parkland County, and Bow Valley Credit Union. That's right. Without them, we would not be able to do what we do. And hey, I am so excited about our guest today. Are you ready to introduce our guest? I am ready to introduce our guest, who is Stephanie Rodenkirchen, who is the owner and CEO of the Lotus Group. The Lotus Group. Welcome, Stephanie. Stephanie. Oh, thanks, you guys. It's awesome to have you. Thanks for having me. We don't get many CEOs. We don't. Why are you looking at me like that? We don't. Well, I don't know why. I know, but that's cool. She's a CEO. I know. That's really incredible. Awesome. I'm just saying. I know. I know. I'm just saying. We don't get many CEOs. I'm just saying. I think that's great. It is. OK, Stephanie, let's kick it off. Yeah. All right. Tell us a little bit about yourself, where you were born and where you grew up. Oh, OK. Well, that's going to be an interesting one. So I actually was, so a little bit about me. I was actually born in just outside of Seattle, Washington. No. So a day after federal election here with everything going on cross border. Kind of interesting. And only spent about 60 days there. So I recall none of it. And then my parents actually relocated. They're both Canadian to the Okanagan. So I'm originally from, well, 60 days post birth from Kelowna. And that's where I was raised. And that's where I grew up until I headed off to universities in the Okanagan. So are you an American citizen? This is a fascinating question. So I was what we would call a dual citizen for quite a few years because of birthright. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, because the US is one of two countries globally that tax on birthright. At a point in my life, I had to make a decision whether I would keep or renounce my US citizenship. And so now I have I am only a Canadian and I went through the. You chose Canada. I well, you know what? It was just yes, I did. Yeah, yeah, I guess truly like having grown up in Kelowna since I was 60 days old, I always felt like I was a Canadian. Both my parents are Canadian. I've lived in Canada my whole life. And so it was a pretty easy decision to make about, I guess, five, six years ago where there's quite a few sort of dual citizenship that are able to renounce and go through the program. And I felt like it was important to do that due diligence and then renounce. And so I have a denationalization certificate, which is kind of rare. Oh, denationalization. That's kind of cool. Yeah. Okay. So, well, that's, that's, wow, that's amazing. Yeah, that's pretty cool. So what were your parents doing? Like, were they in the States working? Is that? Yeah. So my father was actually inport export business at the time, working out of, for, I believe, Cunanoggle at the time. And so he was stationed in Seattle and working out of the New York office for a little bit. And of course, my mom, who's originally from Vancouver, it was a super cool experience. Yes. She enjoyed it early days with two little girls. And so that's what they were doing. And then moved to the Okanagan where we had some family. So, okay. So you moved to Kelowna. That's the journey. That's right. Oh, Kelowna. You lived in Kelowna for a while. Yes, I did. So what school did you go to? High school did you go to in Kelowna? So I went to Kelowna Secondary. Known as KSS. That's right. KSS. And here's the question. What was the KSS mascot? Oh, well, I can say that's really simple. It was the owls. Owl. That's right. The KSS owl. I remember that. The owls. Okay. Okay. I went to Ross Shep. We were the Thunderbirds. Thunderbirds eat owls. I'm just saying. That's all I'm saying. I just had to throw it. The nature of things. But it's very far apart. Kelowna. Beautiful place to live. Agreed. The Okanagan is a beautiful place. Back in the 80s and 90s, it was kind of a sleepy little town. Yes, it was. It was a little bit different. Then all the orchards got pulled out. All the vineyards got planted. Here we are. It's like a tourist hotspot. I know. I lived in Shannon Lake. Okay. Yes. We were both on the west side. Yes. That's right. I grew up in Lakeview Heights. Okay. Yeah. We crossed the bridge all the time. Did you ever get scared on the bridge that the bridge would collapse? I did all the time. Cam? I thought I'd be in the middle and down we go and I'd be in the lake. That's what I thought. That is so funny. So, you know, not to age either you or I, but the reality is, is in times where Cam and I probably crossed the older bridge, the span would get stuck. Yes. Sometimes it would raise for a sailboat and then you'd be in your parents' car and they'd be like, we're going to be here for a couple hours because it's stuck. And there is no way that ambulances could get across. So, you just needed to really hope that you'd stay healthy. I know. I didn't like it. It was scary. I thought, oh, what do you got? Go to the bathroom and you're on the bridge. It's not good. I'm just telling you. And there's no guardrails. It wasn't like the arms came down and protected you. If you were the first car, you were just like looking over the edge and there was the water. It was crazy. But anyway, now they built a new bridge, I guess. I left and they built a new bridge. Okay, cool. And how long did you stay in Kelowna? So yeah, I would have been in Kelowna right to the time that I graduated. And then I went off to university. And you did that where? So yeah, so I went, I played soccer for a year in North Carolina. Okay. And then I ended up doing my undergrad at UBC and I ended up ski racing there and doing a Bachelor of Sociology. Ah, cool. Yeah, that's amazing. That is amazing. I just want to go back to North Carolina, though. Yeah. So soccer, you obviously went to an NCAA school, were you on a scholarship? I did. Did you get recruited? Tell us that story. Yeah. Come on. Okay, so I grew up in the Okanagan. Soccer was obviously like a pretty big sport. Yeah, it was huge. Yeah, so I'm a bit of a soccer nut. So I started playing soccer when I was four and I was just really lucky to have awesome coaches right through my youth program and actually the same coach for many, many years. And just through that opportunity was able to start playing on the BC Provincial soccer team for a few years. And then just due to that kind of exposure, I was offered a scholarship when I was in grade 12. One was either to go skiing or to go to play soccer. And there's a lot more money at that time in the late 90s in women's soccer. And so I made the choice to go to North Carolina and I played at an NCAA Div 1 school, small South Conference. It was kind of schools of like that 5000 to 10,000. So I was in High Point, which is like a beautiful area in North Carolina. I was there until I ended up having quite an incident with a soccer goal coming down on my head. And so I got quite a severe concussion at the end of season, luckily. So it was a great year. But I ended up having to red shirt due to my head injury. And if you've ever watched that level of soccer, you've got to be able to head goals. So I knew I kind of knew the writing was on the wall. And so I made the decision to transfer and come back to Canada, right? Go to UBC. And actually, it was kind of a perfect storm, because when I got to UBC, there was an opportunity to resurrect the Women's Varsity Alpine Ski Team, which I was really involved in skiing. Yeah. And at that point, there wasn't soccer balls flying at my head. Yeah, it skiings a bit dangerous, but it was more in the USCSA. So that's what I did. Yeah. Wow. It worked out. And then I fell in love with sociology, which kind of led me to loving the study of the human condition, which led me into recruitment and HR. So that's kind of it. That is incredible. Yeah. I don't know if I've ever met like a professional. Would you be a professional skier? Is that I or? No. No, I mean, I think that I skied for BC and then a little bit on the Canadian circuit and North American circuit slightly. But I never actually went on to the national team. It was a dream of mine. But I think, you know, like there was some girls that were a lot faster than I was. Did you ski out of Whistler? So no, but lots of friends of mine would have skied out of Whistler. So Whistler is amazing. Yeah, for sure. We actually at that time, the BC ski team, we trained a lot out of Panorama and then in the Okanagan, Apex was a great hill to ski out of. And so we were also in the States in the summers, we would ski out of Mount Hood or Bachelor in the Oregon area. That's right. A little bit in Europe. And yeah, cool. Yeah, amazing. That is just amazing. Great experience for youngsters. That's just exciting. So yeah, awesome. So then Stephanie, what brought you to glorious Alberta? Well, I actually came to Alberta. My sister had kind of left BC. She's a few years older than I am. And she had been in Saskatchewan working in Saskatoon. And at that time, it was the early 2000s. It was an awesome time. Like Alberta was booming. Yes, it was. And I was living in Vancouver at the time. And so and I had fallen in love. And so I moved out this way because of that, right? It's always falling in love. It's a matter of the heart. And it was an adventure. Every story. Yeah. So he, you fell in love. Yeah, I fell in love. With somebody here in Edmonton. I did, yeah. Yeah, I did. How did you meet? Well, you know what? It was, we met both working sort of remotely, a couple summers prior to that. And back in my university days, I tree planted and I always worked in the restaurants or university because it was a great way to pay for school, pay for student loans. And so, yeah, the rest is kind of history. And then truly, you know, once I got out to Alberta and I figured out how to navigate the road system because there was no mountains to show me where I was going, I just fell in love with the community and the people and just the vibe out in Alberta. It's fantastic. And it's pretty close to the mountains. Edmonton is, it's not far. No, no, we're close enough. It's not Vancouver, but it's close enough. Yeah. Yeah. If you wanted to be in the mountains, you could be there in a few hours, a couple hours. So yeah, I think that at that time, there was a lot of people who wanted to be on the coast. But the cost of living was, tell me about it. I mean, what, $1.8 million, the cost of an average home there right now or kind of a starter home? No, I lived there. I lived in Vancouver for 30 years. Okay. And it just, it was time to come home because it's just too, it's just cost too much. Yeah. It's just like a tent in the backyard is like half a million dollars. It's like unbelievable. I'm not even kidding. It's like, it's crazy. It's unbelievable. Yeah. Okay. So wait a minute. I think I misunderstood when you said you fell in love. Did you fall in love with the province or you fell in love with somebody? Tell the truth. Well, initially it would have been that somebody, which of course brought me this way. Yes. And then over my time, I think I just really, spending time in the river valley, spending the time at restaurants, you know. Because it's okay to say you fell in love with somebody. It's all right. I sure did. Yeah. Okay. Good. Good. Okay. I sure did. Yeah. All right. And your husband? Well, he is no longer my husband, but he's someone's husband. So you might want to call that a practice marriage. We might want to cut this part out. I know it's fine. I did not know that. No, it's totally okay. No, this is part of her journey. No, I understand. I just like can't. I'm joking. Hey, but you know what? I'll just let Jennifer ask the questions from here. It is totally okay. It is part of your journey, especially so you were out here. And tell us where you work because you were working in a really a job, a high pressure job. You started a family. Yeah, so it would have been in 2005. I started working with Pfizer Pharmaceuticals. So at that time, probably the largest company. And it was a great experience and got to really interface with some amazing leaders and doctors and learn a lot about health care and sort of that side of things. And then, yeah, and then I became, I was married and then I became a mom of two young ones. And then my life kind of took a turn. And so that, you know, sort of, you know, which is really like life does happen when you're making other plans. So I think it's important to kind of normalize that. You know, and grateful for that whole journey. And I look back on it as a huge learning. And I have, you know, two beautiful blessings that have kind of driven, I guess the next chapter of my life, which are my sons, who are now, my gosh, 15 and 17. And so, yeah, so that journey was about, so five years I was with Pfizer and it was an incredible time to spend in rural Alberta. And actually my territory was from the east side of Edmonton up to Fort McMurray, out to kind of Cold Lake, down to Wainwright and Ponoka. So getting to know the landscape and the communities. Yeah, about 300 physician clinics that I would have called on. And so, you know, I loved my time in pharmaceuticals, but once my boys were born and they were really little and my life shifted, I needed to shift my career to accommodate being able to be close for my kids. Which led me into becoming, at that time, what we call now a recruiter or, you know, the verb that, you know, a headhunter, so to speak. So you left Pfizer. I did, yeah, in 2010. And actually, it was one of my old trainers at Pfizer had said, a great, great friend of a lot of years, had said, Steph, you got to go into headhunting. Like, you love people. And this is an incredible career to help people advance in their own careers. And he said, you know, eat what you kill. And so it's not for the faint of heart. But if you love people and you truly love your clients and you help them, right, you can do some amazing things and you might love it. So did you go to work for a headhunter or did you start your own company? Yeah. So in 2011, I actually joined a local firm that's kind of like right across Canada and spent about four years with them. And I was exposed to a couple incredible mentors who just took me. You know, it's kind of, you know, not, I did not know. I was very green, did not know what I was doing. But I loved people and I really wanted to make impact. And a couple of the sort of like, I would say more senior recruiters just sort of saw that. And they just wrapped their arms around me. And, you know, they kind of pushed me in the right direction and gave me lots of words of encouragement, imparted wisdom on me. And the rest is history and actually still very close to them and very grateful for that time. I think that's really cool. I love that. I love hearing about how people had amazing mentors around them that saw the potential because that's the huge part right there, right? They see potential and they say, we want to help you. We want to help you reach that potential. Yeah. And, you know, Cam and Jennifer, I think that I have been so blessed in my life to have those people show up at every turn. Right. And I think it's definitely, you know, it ignited something in me very young. And it probably threw my sporting days that, you know, when I get, you know, when I can just get there, I want to be someone who can give back. And how do we get that full circle? And how do we get others that work with us and for us and our kids to actually start giving back full circle? I think that's fantastic. That's huge. I love it, especially in the business world. For sure. Young people today, they need their mentors. They need those mentors in their life. Right. It can't just be the competition. No. You have to give them a chance. That's right. And you have to mentor them because they are our next generation of employees. Exactly. That's phenomenal. So you left them and started on your own. So I actually was... How was that? Well, you know what? So there was two four or five year periods where I was with two great groups, where I honed my skills and I moved from strictly accounting and finance recruitment into a director role taking care of two departments for a recruitment group. And during that time, I just started getting really curious about potentially innovating the model. And at that time, one of my children was was quite unwell, and being in office during some of the periods that he was going through was impossible. This was pre-COVID, let's remember. So like not, you know, working virtually wasn't an option, kind of taboo. So I had what I'll call it is like, I always say, you know, blessings can come from hardship, but I had this kind of, you know, very important moment where I needed to build something out of necessity for ensuring that I could provide in a way that would be, you know, a priority and meaningful when I looked back in five years, I would have done the right thing as a parent, but also needing to provide for my family. And so Lotus was born in 2019 out of that necessity. And it was truly born kind of out of necessity. But I realized right away that I really was passionate about bringing a different kind of model to the recruitment and HR kind of world, one that was a little bit more multifaceted to help small, mid-sized organizations with their people practices. Right, right. So let's talk about that for a second. So you decide you're going to go out on your own? What, I mean, tell us about all the fears, if there were fears, if there was... The challenges. Yeah, the challenges. Tell us. Well, you know, what's interesting is I look back now and it's been five and a half years. So like, I feel like I've blanked. But at that time, I didn't really have time to, I think, analyze like I normally would. I'm fairly analytical and I had kind of the blessing of sort of pressure to move. And that helped me, I think, overcome the concern about like the risk of failure and I just needed to fail forward. And so there was some key people in building the business that were involved. And we just sort of decided it was like time to incorporate business. We would have consultants. We would first, in the first year, Lotus Group was strictly search. And it was so just recruitment. And then into that next year, you know, COVID hit. And so we made the decision to stay at that time non bricks and mortar and everyone had said, you're nuts, like, how can you start a business that way? But guess what? Because we were, we started growing when everyone was trying to figure out how to displace their people. So we were working off the grid. Everything we did, we had built a remote structure. And then during that time, we realized, and I really felt it was important to have an HR component, to not only be able to identify talent in place, but like, let's help support, retain and build and develop that talent that our clients have now secured. And maybe they don't have a full HR group. Maybe they do, but maybe they need project work. Let's create a new division, which was when our HR division was born in 2020. And that sort of took on a life of its own with kind of different experts who could provide, whether it might be a payroll audit, it might be a compensation assessment, it might be some tough terminations, whatever it might be. And then we kind of evolved into the third year of Lotus, and some of our clients who are in that construction, oil and gas environment really liked our model and said, can you help us get boots on the ground for volume hires? And we didn't do that at that time. And so of course we looked at it and we thought, if this is what our clients need, let's build that. So then our industrial model or division was born. Yeah, OK. And so we've got just kind of these three pillars. And that's the Cole's Notes. That's incredible. I think one of the things, Stephanie, I so admire about you is the fact that you were having these medical challenges with your son. You knew you had to change the model for yourself and your family and to grow. And you did it. That, I mean, you just stepped up and you did it. Yeah. You guys are sweet. I certainly didn't do it alone. And I think there's a lot of people whose ears I probably burned up talking about like how we could innovate the model. But, you know, I think that it was, I was kind of inspired by the journey of truly my son. And I thought about sort of like, how do we pivot to have better outcomes? And so, you know, I was forced quick. We were forced quickly to build a model that was sustainable for our clients. And we knew we were little. And so, how we decided our model could look different is we kind of looked at what we felt was maybe broken with the current traditional model. And we said, like, it's a tough slug for recruiters. It's a tough experience at times for clients. And it can be challenging for the candidates, frankly, because it's a contingent model. Vastly recruitment is done on contingency, which means no fee unless successful. And so, we decided that, and in my mind, I thought, what would create an exclusive partnership that could always end in positivity? Right. Well, big guarantees, true time dedication, payment that is exchanged up front, right? Which creates a quality, a commitment. Sure. And so, we just decided that we would not deviate from that model. So, from 2019 to today, we have never done not one contingent piece of work. All of our clients are exclusive. And the gift of that has given us an 87% retention rate year over year, which is very hard in this market. Yeah, yeah. And then it's allowed our recruiters to, I always say, I always say to anyone running a business or looking for work, if you're going to get tired, you need to get paid because there's a reciprocity that is important to ensure engagement. So, that's our model. Do you specialize? Are there certain industries? What do you focus in on? Yeah, so great question Cam. So, as far as specialization, our team of recruiters of dedicated consultants, they are very specialized in practice areas. Right. So, we would have like a corporate focus. So, that would be administrative, finance as well. And we would have say an engineering and technical recruiter where they focus in that area, sales and marketing and executive search, so on. I could go on and on. Sure. But what I will say is that relative to industry, because we are primarily, about 70% of the business we do is primarily in Alberta. Right. You know, we are agnostic. We are probably more size driven, small businesses from that kind of like 20 employees up to about that 300 mark. That's our sweet spot. And our clients are very diverse. So, lots in oil and gas, construction, transportation, but also we span into healthcare, technology, retail, hospitality, professional services. I know there's a lot of business people listening to us. And I did HR for a little bit here. And when you're in that sort of smaller sector, and you think, man, you can't afford to hire a full time HR person. Right. But you need somebody who knows what they're doing to walk you through it. Because it's cruel out there when it comes to hiring and firing and all of those things. So the fact that you're keying in on that small to medium sized business, I think that's fantastic. That's fantastic. Because a lot of businesses, they just don't know what to do. So they're missing out on getting the right person to fill the position. Well, scaling a business and growth is difficult. And I think that often a lot of leaders, you know, they're running fairly lean. And it's not that they don't value that HR component or those business partners. But they, you know, they're literally really working to scale and find the right people at the table. And one of the things that they so need, and I believe we can provide them, is risk mitigation. So, you know, working in the company's best interest. And where we come in is really truly in that HR side and that people side. And then obviously, sometimes they'll have to confer with legal. But it's a nice complement when we can say, hey, you know, we can bring you the best practices from an employment legislation standpoint. But we feel that you need to have legal eyes on this. We'll always make sure that we're trying to mitigate that risk. And you're right, it can be very tricky. It's overwhelming sometimes. And people are everything. Like people are also your horsepower. So you need to treat them. You know, they just they really are, you know, the heart of every organization. They truly are. Well, retention is key. Absolutely. People hate turnover. It's costly. It's expensive It's costly. It's so expensive People leave often for a reason. That reason can be fixed. But if it's not brought to their attention, it'll be a continuous, on-going type of thing. So yeah, retention is key. It's huge. Wow. So you've been in business how long? So we incorporated in July of 2019. So we will be six in July. Wow. Yeah, that's right. How many employees? So we have 12 full-time employees and eight contractors. So our team is around that 20. Yeah. Everybody's here in Edmonton or spread out or? So great question. We are primarily, most of our team is here. We have one member in Calgary. We have one member in the Okanagan. One of our team members is in Vancouver. We also have one in Nova Scotia. Wow. Then we also have one in St. John's, really? Newfoundland. So we're actually kind of spread. You're like Canada wide.that's fantastic You're like Canada everywhere. It's a bit of a grow strategy. That's so cool. Yeah. We've been super fortunate in terms of how we've grown and how we individuals and talent have come to Lotus. Our goal really is to be a provider of the services coast to coast. So I think if we want to provide that, we also have to live it. So it's a journey. Wow. How do you manage people right across the country? Well, truly I have, we have an amazing team. So our people are everything. Our values are incredible, incredibly important to us. Yeah. So we as an organization a couple of years ago, in some of the work that we've done, we really saw organizations struggle in that growth phase to like expand and manage people and get everyone growing together. Right. So something that was important in our fourth year of business was establishing an operational system that we would absolutely implement and adopt. And so at that point, I'd met an incredible implementer named Andrew Lamoyne who implements EOS. Okay. We made the commitment immediately that we would implement it. We knew it was a cost, but we looked at it like an absolute investment. How could we create a framework that we could operationalize to ensure that the quality output for our clients, candidates, and our team could be always scoreboarded? So we run on EOS and we've run on EOS now for, which is Entrepreneurial Operating System, for about, going on a year and a half, and it has definitely accelerated and kind of foundationalized in a way, our processes, our policies, and helped us to really, I think, live and breathe our values. So that's helped us for sure. Incredible. That's amazing. Six years and you're right across the country. That's just phenomenal. It's phenomenal growth. It really is phenomenal. So believe it or not, we're running out of time, but before Jennifer asks you our last question, what's ahead? As you're sitting here, what's ahead for Lotus? Like what's, dream the dream live on the podcast? All right, let's go. Any breaking news, Stephanie? We love breaking news. We're opening up in Japan. No way. Yeah. You know what? So we have a, because of how we run with EOS, we have a one year, we have a three year, we have a 10 year, you know, a vision and they're, and they're documented and they're formulated. And so I won't like bore you with the details of that. But what I would say is I really believe that we all need to kind of have a North Star. And so for sure, for our North Star, I, you know, big thing for us is sustainability and that, you know, quality is there. So we want, we want our outcomes to stay, but we really do want to expand our reach. And so our goal is, you know, over the next couple of years that we would move to likely sort of like an ESOP plan for our employees. We really want to ensure that everyone that's invested in building Lotus is truly a part of the equation and that's the goal of ours. So we're steadfast to that. You know, we hope to be, you know, at some point, delivering quality services to small to mid-sized groups right across the country, potentially south of the border, if we decide to do that. You know, I think it's important to keep relations and I think it's going to be possible. And, you know, so that's a hope of ours and we hope to have likely between that 30 and 50 team members. And but the most important thing for us is we are a leading provider of quality and trusted solutions. And for us, you know, if we're not doing that, if our clients are not successful, then something needs to change internally. And so our goal is just that sustainable growth. Awesome. Yeah. Wow. Final question. OK. What is the best piece of advice you've been given either personally or professionally that you carry with you to this day? Oh, boy. So, you know, I've been given so much wisdom and advice, but I think the thing that resonates with me, because it's applicable to all parts of our lives and those that we encounter, is that when you're faced with a difficult decision, you know, especially in these pressing times where things seem pretty dire and can feel urgent, pretty heavy, lots of leaders are feeling lonely, is just when you feel pressed to make a decision, try to sit and pause and just recognize that you got to get 300 feet up and think about in five years when I look back, if I have to make a decision today in five years when I look back, what will have been the decision that I need to make that I would be most proud of and that will matter most in five years? And I feel like if you apply that to your business, your employees, your vendors, your children, your extended family members, you know, you're never going to regret it. Yeah, 100%. So great advice. It is amazing advice. Great advice today, a day after an election in Canada, where a lot of people are freaking out. Fair. I think we've been saying it all day. Just take a step back. Take a breath. Yeah, just take a step back. And where will we be in a couple of years? Three years, five years. That's great. Yeah. Great insight Cam. So that's excellent. Wow. What a powerhouse. Unbelievable. Incredible. It's great. It's phenomenal. Thank you. Thank you so much, Stephanie. Yeah. Thank you both for having me. It was a pleasure. Yeah, it's our pleasure. You're both just, it's just great. Thanks. Love the vibe. So tell us, Lotus, how do people get in touch with you? Yeah. So you know what? I mean, we've got our website, www.lotus-group.ca. We are on LinkedIn. We are on all the social platforms. Our office is right in the west block of Glenora. So we're easily accessible. They are associate members of the Acheson Business Association and we are so very lucky to have them. Absolutely, 100%. So hey, listen, check them out. Go to all their social media sites. Go to their website. Man, I'm telling you, I don't think you'll be disappointed working with these folks. Absolutely not. Thanks everybody. Thanks everyone. Yeah, I mean, anybody who's going to that event, it's sold out already, but anybody attending that event, it's going to be amazing. Agreed. Awesome. Well, thanks everybody for listening. Hey, make sure you tell somebody about the podcast. Tell your friends, tell your neighbors, tell your business associates, tell your enemies. If you don't have any friends, make one just so you can tell them about the podcast, wherever you get your podcasts, or at www.Achesonbusiness.com, and be sure to Subscribe, you won't miss an episode. That's right, thanks everybody for listening. Thanks everyone, see you next week.