A Coffee with Matt Schellenberger from The Edmonton Construction Association

Join us for a coffee and chat with Matt Schellenberger the Director of Corporate Development for the Edmonton Construction Association. 

Matt's journey from music enthusiast to Director of Corporate Development is a fascinating tale of diverse experiences. Despite his deep-rooted passion for music, life took him on a global adventure before landing him in the construction industry. 

Matt's story is a testament to the winding paths our careers can take and the unexpected turns that lead us to where we are meant to be. Now, as he gears up to run for Parkland County Division 3 councillor, it's clear that his journey is far from over – each chapter building on the last, creating a unique and inspiring narrative of growth and evolution. 

Join us as we delve into the next exciting chapter of Matt Schellenberger's story.

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Transcript

0:14

Well, good morning, everybody, and welcome to another edition of the ABA Coffee In The Park. My name is Cam Milliken, and I'm here with my co-host extraordinaire, Jennifer Herrick, the Executive Director of the Acheson Business Association. Hi, Jennifer. Well, good morning, Cam. How are you on this kind of chilly, kind of sunny day. I know, it's a unique day, isn't it? But it's nice. We had snow the other day. It did. That's kind of melted. Well, that's expected. Yeah, so no, you know what? It's a great kind of sort of springish day. It's getting there, slowly but surely. Slowly but surely. Yeah. So hey, everybody, we just want to let you know that we're coming to you live from the Wall Coffee Roasters in the heart of beautiful downtown Acheson. That's right. So if you hear some noise in the background, coffee machines whirring, people talking, kids screaming, it's because we're coming to you live. So don't worry about any of that. It just adds to the ambiance. Jennifer, tell us about some very important people. Cam, we would like to thank our Gold Corporate sponsors, which include the Myshak Group of Companies, Genics, Parkland County, and Bow Valley Credit Union. That's right. Without them, we would not be able to do what we do. So we want to thank them. They're awesome people. Anything else we need to know or you want to tell us? No? Let's just kick it off. Why don't we just get right into it? Introduce our guest today. Well, our guest today is Matt Schellenberger, who's the Director of Corporate Development for the Edmonton Construction Association. Right On! Welcome, Matt. Good to have you. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. Yeah, this is great. So hey. We'll kick it off like we always do. We ask this. The first question we ask everybody. That's right. So Matt, tell us a little bit about yourself. Where were you born? Where did you grow up? Well, I was born in Edmonton. I've spent most of my time in and around Edmonton. Grew up just west of Spruce Grove on Campsite Road, which is now Jen Heil Road. So we've been absorbed and I've moved north. So I live a little bit north of Spruce Grove now. So I ask this question every time because I'm always curious. What high school did you go to? Spruce Grove Composite. Okay, go Spruce Grove. What was the mascot? The mascot. Oh my goodness. I always ask that. Do we usually get it wrong? No. Some people don't know. I'm trying to remember, right? I don't know. Was it an eagle or what was it? I don't know. Anyway. Yeah, a panther. I mean, we were panthers. Well, I guess it was a panther. Yeah. Did you play sports? Did you do anything like that? Did play sports. Played volleyball, basketball. Played soccer and played on the high school teams. Yeah, right on. I was the short guy who tried to pretend he was as fast as he could be. I was more of a defensive mind. I know. I was like that too. I always pretended I was taller than I was. Yeah. Till reality sunk in. Yeah, I was like, you are what you are. You are. I think I reached my peak at about 14. Yeah, yeah. It's great when you're 18 and can still get into the movies for child. It's true. Matt, what did your mom and dad do then? So my mom was a teacher. She taught in a variety of places. She actually taught in Enoch for a number of years. Oh, really? Okay. At Kitaskinaw, Milgrove for most of her career and then eventually Woodhaven before she retired. Okay. Was she elementary, junior high, high school? She was, she started in junior high and then ended in elementary, but sort of bounced around between kind of grades five and nine. Right. Were you ever in the school that she was teaching in? I was not. She knew better. You were not? Okay. Yeah. Well, we've had guests on before, where their parents were teachers. I don't know if that went well, so anyways. I'm sure I would have been a handful. Yeah. She knew better. That's good. I was also, actually, I spent most of my junior high time in Stony Plain. Okay. At Meridian Heights. I was a French immersion student. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Which was super fun. Yeah. Meridian Heights was a great school. It still is a great school. Yeah. But we had a really solid group of just people in sports and other things that we did. But did you carry on with French immersion or did you? I did. Yeah. So that's what took me back to Spruce Grove Composite, which had just taken on that program at the time. And then I did my first year of university at the Faculte Saint-Jean. Oh, you did. Okay. That's fantastic. Yeah. That's really cool. Yeah. It was fun. Eventually, the programming meant I went to the U of A standard, but I always enjoyed my time doing French. And my kids are doing it now. Yeah. My daughter did the same. Yeah. Yeah. But I asked her now, can you speak French? And she goes, no. It's tricky. If you don't keep it, six years of French, can you talk French? Or we'll hear somebody talking French. I'll go, do you understand that? She goes, no. Yeah. I'm like, well, what was that all about? What? Was that a waste of time or what was that? Oh, it's tricky. But no, she would never trade it for anything. It was good. Yeah. Can you speak French? I still can speak pretty good French, but it's not like, it's not as tight as it should be. Because we don't practice it as much. But I find, you know, I travel a little bit down East, usually once or twice a year. Yeah. And of course, when you get down to Ontario, especially, you just hear so much more of it. And it's nice to have. Yeah. I think it's... You're right. It is good to have. I was offered a job once in Montreal, and I went down to check it out. And I went into, everywhere I went into, they talked to me in French. So I said, no, I didn't. I didn't take the job. No merci. No merci. English, English. They're looking at you. Anyways, no, I didn't do the job. Okay. So high school, then you went into university. University, yeah. U of A. I was a dabbler. So I came out of university with a lot of interests, including music, education, girls, all the things. And you know... What degree is that? I'm just wondering what degree that is. It sort of melded into a general arts degree. It did, yeah. An honours history and poli-sci degree. Yes, it did. This is good. I love this. It started in business. That was... Statistics was not my thing. Not your friend. Yeah. But we... Yeah. At the same time, I was busy kind of with a band, and we were trying to become rock stars. We want to talk about this. Yeah. You told... You let this cat out of the bag a little while ago with us, and we've been talking about it ever since. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay, Matt. So when did you get the bug for music? When did this all start? So my mom did the momly thing and put me into piano lessons at about 6, 7. And that wasn't the beginning of the bug. That was the arduous, learn it, Bach, Beethoven, all that stuff. But my mom, to her credit, and she tells me this story. She said, sometimes she'd have conversations with our teacher, like my music teacher, and she'd say, he doesn't practice. And my mom would say, well, he practices with you a half hour a week. And that's all I need right now. I love your mom. So yeah. She has patience. Because can I just interject here? I know this isn't about me. My mom put me in piano lessons. And after the third lesson, the teacher said to my mom, gave her her money back and said, I don't think this is going to work. So that hit the wall. That was after the third lesson. I was done. Well, anyway, sorry. Luckily, she didn't give up. No, that's good. Neither of them. Yeah. So how many years did you do piano? So I kept going till about, so about 12, it started to hit. Oh, okay. And then I, you know, by then I had progressed. Yeah. And I learned some theory and some other things. But that's when you start as a young person. And I'm an only child. So I didn't have the older brother or sister saying, yeah, hey, learn this, do this. Yeah. But some friends started saying, hey, you know, have you heard this band called Nirvana or Pearl Jam? Or Guns N Roses or any of those, right? And so then it was, OK, well, excuse me, Mrs. Teacher, I can't remember her name, sorry. If you're listening, it'll come to him eventually. Can I learn November Rain instead of Ode To Joy? And that was the beginning. And then from there, piano moved to guitar, which, and then I started getting together with some friends and we started the journey. Yeah. Right. And guitar was something I picked up really fast because I just had the energy for it. And then it went from very quickly from about 12, 13 to jamming in my parents' again. Thanks, mom. Yeah. Living room at a lot of decibels. Living room?! I was gonna say Garage! Yeah. It was living room and then it was downstairs. Yeah. I had to go to the basement. I was drums, so It was like, you're in the basement, kid. Okay. Great. Yeah. We were living room and then my room downstairs, which was just below my mom's office. So she had vibration going through as she did her work after teaching. So yeah, from there, it kind of took off for us a little bit through high school. How did you pick your bandmates? Yeah, I was going to say. Well, so our singer, who's a local guy, Corey Haley. He's now principal at Memorial. He was a guy who... Shout out to Memorial. Hey, hey. He was a guy that we knew who could sing. He had been Meridian Heights choral stuff. So, hey, you're the singer. My buddy, Mike, you can play guitar. You're the guitar player. Can you teach me? Okay, good. Do we know anyone who can play bass? Oh, Andrew Goche. Doesn't play bass, but he wants to come hang out. Go buy a bass. You know what? I hear this story about so many bands, the bass player, never played bass. And all of a sudden, the guys play bass, and then they're like megastars. Anyways. All right. And then the original drummer was my cousin, who was great, but he was 13 at the time. We were only 17. But we, you know, when we jumped to 18 and he's 14, my aunt said, yeah, maybe not. Not the influence. You know. What was the band name? So the band name was Haven. Haven? Haven, yeah. And that took a, we went through a few iterations. But Haven became the one. The one. Yeah. And we did our first album, if you want to call it that. Yeah. Through a good friend, Shane Pierce is his name. But he recorded it at Milgrove School, in the library. In the library. On tape. No. It was a 16 hour Sunday. Wow. We used Milgrove because mom worked at Milgrove. Yeah. Yeah. And we laid down an epic album. Epic. That still to this day we have. Yeah. It sounds like a bunch of 17 year olds trying to record an album. But you know, it was the start of something. Where did it land on the charts? Top. We knocked out U2, as I remember, right? Were you guys doing gigs and stuff? Yeah. So we started doing gigs then. And then it started to get a little bit more serious. So in university, there was a scene. Yeah. And there was more of a scene around at that time than I would say there is now. So we started doing little shows. Spruce Fest, Spruce Fest, wow. Spruce Fest 99 was, yeah. But did you play, did you play Farmer's Days in Stony? We weren't ready for Farmer's Days yet. But Spruce Fest, we did at the Elks Hall. At the Elks Hall. At the Elks Hall, 14 bands or something like that. Oh man. Yeah. Wow. So then eventually we ended up more in the city and playing some of the clubs at the time, Side Track, Urban Lounge, other places like that. No, you still were in university. Still in university. And then slowly things started happening. So we did a second album and got a manager. Come on. A manager. Yeah. He was somebody who saw us at a pub on the south side. Yeah. Came up, leather jacket, tall, about 6'5, long hair, glasses, loved us. And you're going, I'm kind of scared. Yeah. I'm interested. He ended up being amazing, actually, and helped us get a lot of great gigs over the years. So did you go beyond Edmonton? We did, eventually. Yeah. So eventually we did, you sort of climb this path, and there were some other bands doing at the time, Tupelo Honey, Fifth Season, who became Social Code. Yeah. Oh, Social Code. Yeah. So some of those bands we were playing with. Yeah. And then at that, you would start doing sort of bigger stuff. Yeah. And we started doing that, which eventually got us to things like Stage 13, which with Nickleback. Yeah. Wow. You know, some of those big shows and little tours around everywhere from basically White Horse down to the southern border and East. And then we recorded an album that cost King's Ransom at the time. Yeah. But we paid it back. So your third album. It was our third album. Yeah. And that's pretty great. I had a place called Power Sound with a gentleman named Phil Anderson, who was a real gem of a guy, still records. But yeah, really proud of those albums. And then we did The Push. We tried. We got some interest from a few labels, but it never kind of got over the top, which again, did you want it to like, was that your goal or were you guys? At the time, you have the starry eyes. But we were practical enough. Yeah. We all got basically degrees and other things. And we're still taking care of what we need to take care of. Sure. I was probably the one that was mostly willing to quit everything to just focus on this. And that's what happens, right? Is that the crossroads? Yeah. And a few of us, I was more of an adventurous soul at that time. Right. I still have a little bit of that. But a few of us, our bass player, our singer, well, they met some of their forever people. Sure. And then of course, the tensions, not tensions with us, but tensions within the system. Did you have like inner band fights? There was lots of throwing chairs through windows. Really? Oh, I love that. Every great band fights. Creative differences. It's like, that's their history, right? You know what? We couldn't afford to throw chairs through windows. No, because you have to pay for it. Do you trash hotel rooms? That's what I want to know. No, I wish I could say I was that kind of hooligan, but it's too respectful for a gentleman for that. So you're doing this, you're traveling, you're rock stars, loving the life. Now, Matt, I know that you're married. When did you meet your wife and where? Yeah. Was she like a groupie? No. She would be the anti-groupie. The anti-groupie, yeah. I love it, I love it. I needed an anti-groupie by the way. Exactly. Yeah, somebody to bring me down to earth. That's great. In a great way. Yeah, where did you meet her? So I met her at Eastside Mario's in Spruce Grove. Really? And I'll tell this story. It's the only time I've ever been fired from a job and I earned it. So I was- At Eastside Mario's. No, I was working at Boston Pizza. And at that time, a ton of great friends from Boston Pizza. By the way, Joe, who owned it at the time. Yeah. We've had Joe Scalzo. We've had this conversation. So he's aware of this. So I'm not letting the cat out of the bag too much. If you're listening, Joe, yeah, your pizza is still good. Yeah, we love it. Yeah. But working at the bar, too many friends, maybe too many deals under the table. So after about nine months, Angel sat down with me. I remember her name too. Yeah. Said, hey, I'm gonna have to let you go. I said, yeah. You knew that was coming, eh? Yeah, I saw that was coming. So I ended up getting a job at Eastside Mario's. It was very quickly after from Brent Gitzel, actually, who owns SandyView, right? So thanks, Brent. And that's where I met Elizabeth, my wife. Was she working there or what? She was working there. Yeah, and so we started working together. We were in different relationships at the time. Oh, okay. Mine started to go a little sideways, so did hers. And after it went sideways. Oh, there's so much to say here. These are the 20s. Was it love at first sight? Come on, be honest. Was it like, this is... You know what? We couldn't not talk to each other and be around each other. Yeah, there you go. So no wonder your other relationships were going down. Yeah, it was. Yeah, absolutely. But it certainly wasn't like this... It was a winding road a little bit. More on my side. Yeah. In between us fully getting together, there was about a year of me living in Australia and New Zealand and Thailand. Oh, okay. And why? Did you just need to get away? I needed to get away, which was a bit of a reframing, in a good way. You know, some of the music stuff had been piling up and sort of the tensions there and some life stuff. And just, you know, I think it was about 24, 25. And it's that, okay, grow up, feel, but I'm not really sure if I'm ready. Right, right. So yeah, I left for about a year. But halfway through that, she joined me in Thailand. Come on. And we had a great six weeks. So I didn't last, I went back to Australia. Then after that, it was pretty sure that I was coming back. And she was going to be that girl for me. So you weren't in the band anymore. Did she ever hear you play? Oh, of course. Oh yeah, okay. So she did. Yeah, so then I came back and I was, I was about 26, 27. Anyway, we got engaged at 28. Yeah. Married at 29. Yeah. Wow. And now two boys. Yeah. We live just north on the farm. Sure. And it's, yeah, the rest is, I don't know if I'd say history, but. No, no, no. She's still putting up with me. Well, yeah. So you came back, Matt, you got married. Where did your career journey take you? So I sort of, when I came back, there was a few different opportunities. One actually was, my dad had started a company called Ranchers Meats, which if you might recall, 2004, I believe, we had that whole Mad Cow Scare. Yes, that's right. Yeah. So my dad had been in government. He was an MP for 16 years out of Wetaskiwin in that area. And then he'd worked in the provincial government for a number of years. So he's, and we're fourth generation cattle farmers. So people started calling and saying, hey, as somebody that's been around it, what can we do here as farmers? Because meat prices are really tanking. Yeah, it was killing farmers. I know that my cousin was a beef farmer at the time. Yeah, and the industry, as it unfortunately still is kind of, it was fairly monopolistic, right? So at the time, there were a couple of different groups in Alberta and Saskatchewan and other places trying to get co-ops together. And Ranchers was a co-op. And it actually, we eventually got to a place where they almost opened a meatpacking plant here in Acheson. Isn't that right? Yeah. Okay. Which is now just across the road there. And I think it's a government sort of repository. Oh, yeah. The warehouse there. The warehouse. Yeah. So I worked there for about two-ish years, which had some awesome experiences. When they got the building done, we went down. There was a purchase of all of the interior machinery components from a packing plant in Mississippi that had gone through all kinds of legal things. Yeah. Was a bit of a money laundering thing. So we went down and bought all that stuff, brought it up here. So I worked doing some of that stuff. Yeah. Anyway, unfortunately, with pricing. So by this time, it was about 2007, 2008. And if you recall, everything got expensive. Yeah. So that was I foray into that. And then I had a foray into the financial world with financial planning and all kinds of different things. So that I enjoyed. But as we were getting close to having our first son, it was okay. What do I want to do? Right. And so I started asking people, asking friends. And a friend of mine, his mom worked at a recruiting firm and connected me with kind of a whole foray of opportunities, which ended up being the Edmonton Construction Association, which is that's 13, 14 years ago. Wow. So I've been there. I've been there a good time, right? So let me ask you a question. So you say you were fourth generation cattle farmers. Yeah. Did you ever think maybe I'll, I mean, I know the market was terrible. Yeah. But did you ever think maybe I want to do this? Maybe I want to be a rancher? Yeah. I wish I could say yes. Yeah. Well, you know, we still have some cattle. We have 50 head. So very, very sort of casual. Sure. 50 head. You have 50 head. Yeah. But when I was growing up, we had about 150. Okay. My dad was always working full time. Mom worked full time. So it always had been that. Yeah. So again, the idea of, okay, you see it now, if you want to make a living at it, you've got to work. Yeah. It is your full time job. It is. Yeah. It is. Yeah. We're going to have 27 head here coming up. Yeah. And luckily, I don't have to do it, but it's a full time caretaker job. It is. It really is. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. So I'm glad and I'm glad we're still doing it. The boys get to see it now. And as you age or as I've aged, you sort of see it more for what it is. I think you've got to grow into it. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, it was never something where it was sort of like, okay, let's take this big. Let's do it full time. Go after it. Yeah. And I'm a person who has multiple interests anyway. Sure. So some people I know they can find their passion project. Yeah. I have too many passions. At least that's what my wife knows. No. That's good. Yes, you can. We won't talk about it. It's not about me today. It's all about you. But yeah. Well, that's really cool. OK. So you joined the Edmonton Construction Association. Yeah. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about that. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I had not been around not for profits, and I certainly didn't really understand, you know, what the Edmonton Construction Association was. I'd been around a bit of home building and other things, but not from the side of, you know, understanding the industry. So I got engaged there as a marketing communications person, and then quickly got to know sort of what the association land was like. Right. And membership associations and business associations. I mean, I don't have to tell you guys. Yeah. So, like, they're cool places, right? Tell us a little bit, like, what is the role of the Edmonton? What do you guys, why do you exist? Yeah. So, we're the largest construction association, Western Canada, for commercial ICI. So, we touch a bit of institutional, a little bit of industrial, but mostly commercial construction. And we have about a thousand member firms. Really? From your bigs, your PCLs, Ledcors,Ellis Don's, all the way to mom and pops who work in the commercial industry. And we're really designed, it's close to a hundred year organization. It was designed at the beginning, and still we do, is to provide opportunities to those members on procurement. Sure. So we still manage the procurement opportunities through all of the public entities. So that would be your province and cities, region, all that. And then there's an advocacy and government engagement component, of course. Sure. And then you get into things no different than any business association, with networking, education opportunities, all kinds of different things. But I've enjoyed it, because, well, construction is a fantastic industry. Yeah. We have a lot of shining star companies that have come out of Edmonton. Yeah. You know, the PCLs, Stantec, right? Clarks, all those. Sure. So, and then for me, it's really the people, right? I mean, I'm a people person, and those, you get to support an industry, you get to sort of stand in between certain issues on behalf of an industry. But our board is, over the years, I've gotten to know a ton of great leaders, no different than the ABA board, or any of these boards. You get to know a ton of great people who are really serving our community. Right. And supporting what I think is great city building, right? For sure. Great industry, but yeah. Matt, we'll see if you want to tell us this or not, but what's next for Matt Schellenberger? What's, we know something, but are you going to say and announce it? Do you want to announce it here on our podcast? Yeah. This is it. We love cutting-edge news. Breaking news, Matt. Breaking news, ABA Coffee In The Park, breaking news with Matt Schellenberger. Okay, Matt. Yeah. Well, you know, I was just saying to Cam. I got my paperwork in on Friday, so I'm officially running for Division III, Parkland County Councillor. Fantastic. It is fantastic. It is. I'm excited. Okay. Parkland III. There it is. Yeah. Division III. There it is. You heard it here. You heard it here. Good. Good. You'll be seeing them at your door. So why? No, but it's a good... It is. It is. It is. Yeah. I say it a bit tongue in cheek, only because we know enough to know enough, but it's like, why? Yeah. You know, people ask me... So there's the why generally, and I think there's the why, Parkland County. Why generally? It's been in my... It's in my DNA. Yeah. Well, yeah. With your dad, obviously. Yeah. I grew up at a kitchen table where my mom, who's a self-identified sort of leftist, and my dad, a right conservative, were... I bet those two were interesting. They were. Over pork chops. That was probably a pretty interesting day. I got... Yeah. You got both a good education on those things. Yeah. Okay. So, I mean, it's been something I've cared about and talked about for a long time. Not necessarily running, but just politics generally. And for me, the opportunity at Parkland County is municipal politics, to me, is sort of that... like, it's the ground level, but it's important to understand how government is really, you know, working with community. Yeah. It's outside of parties. I know parties are creeping in here now in Edmonton and Calgary, but here it's still not. Yeah. And I think, you know, if you're going to... Wherever my career goes in terms of politics, and if I do provincial or federal, you got to understand, you know, the municipal side first. Absolutely. It's the grassroots of it. It is. It really is. It's whether if you're in an urban area or a rural area, it's the grassroots. It is. It is. And I think, again, the Tri-region has so much opportunity in front of it. But, you know, my work with the Edmonton Construction Association has, you know, taught me how municipal politics can impact growth and development. 100%. And I want to be a part of some of the decision making. Well, I think this is great. I like when you say things like, I'm starting here and who knows where it'll end. So, I hope that one day we're looking back on our podcast and we say, we had that Prime Minister on our podcast. Or that Premier on our podcast. So, I've been known to call that out a little bit. So, I'm just saying, I think, you know, Mr. Premier. Anyway, Danielle, we still love you. You're awesome. Yeah, nonetheless. Not there yet. No, no. But you know what, Matt? I just want to say thank you for doing it. Yeah. Because public service is really hard. Especially these days. Yeah, especially these days. No, it really is. And we need great people like you running. Thank you. No, politicians are, you know, I think, yeah, it's just, it's a tough job. And it's tough on your family, and I'm sure you've weighed all that. Did you have conversation with your dad? Did you sit down and say, dad? Yeah. And did he give you those, that great sage advice? Yeah, you know, I will say when I told him that I was doing it, there was a bit of a, you know, you feel this warmth of it. And he's super excited. Yeah. Got a smile on his face. He's already ready to say, yeah, this is our talking about, you know, he's gonna be out there knocking on doors. The other thing. Good for him. And he's still as connected as ever. So in terms of the issues and what he wants to do. That's fantastic. So yeah, I look forward to doing this with a lot of people. It takes a village to be different than we are, right? For sure. But I am looking forward to doing it with him. Well, thanks for letting us in on it. That's great. Well, Matt, 30 minutes. That's been almost 30 minutes. It doesn't take long. One final question. What's the best piece of advice you've been given either personally or professionally that you carry with you to this day? So, you know, one of the things that's hard for people, I think, and a lot of people, and I gotta remind myself, and I have been given tons of advice over the years by a lot of great mentors. But when we talk about being our best in every situation, so one mentor always said to me, and I sort of, I gleaned it from him, and he said, I always try and lead where I stand. So when I'm in a situation, it's good. How am I giving my best in that situation, whether it's, you know, being open, whether it's being communicative, listening to people, and then providing, right? So leadership is an every day choice, right? It's how we show up. And it's, you know, the curiosity, it's all those types of things. So I always think about that. And it's impossible to always be perfect at those things. But if we think about those things in a positive mindset, I think we're going to give our best in every moment. Yeah. Excellent advice. Wow. Well, thanks. This has been great. Thank you so much, Matt. And all the best, to you. And we'll be watching. Yeah. Thank you. Search his band out on iTunes. I know. I want to see if it's actually there. We should have asked him if it's on iTunes. But yeah, what a great story. What a great guy. Matt's a really awesome guy. Matt's a fantastic guy. Really appreciate him taking the time. So yeah, good podcast. Thanks, everybody, for listening. Really appreciate it. Don't forget to tell your friends, your neighbors, your business associates, your enemies. If you don't have a friend, make one so you can tell them about the ABA Coffee In The Park podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. Or you can go to www.Achesonbusiness.com and download them there. And subscribe. Yes, subscribe. That's important. Because then you'll be reminded every time a new podcast comes up. Every Thursday at noon. Yeah, it's exciting. But thanks, everybody. We appreciate it. Thanks for listening.