A Coffee with Murray McCourt from The Ranch Golf and Country Club

Join us for a coffee and chat with Murray McCourt from The Ranch Golf and Country Club. Born in Stettler Alberta, Murray has always had the love fore golf. Murray attended the San Diego Golf Academy in California, learning all the ins and outs of running a golf course, while becoming a Golf Pro. Listen to hear Murray's incredible story: from his early career, managing hockey teams, to running The Ranch and more. 

Transcript

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Well, hello, everybody. It's Cam Milliken. Welcome again to another episode of the ABA Coffee In The Park. I'm here with my co-host extraordinaire, Jennifer Herrick, the executive director of the Acheson Business Association. Hello, Jennifer. Hi, Cam, how are you this morning? If I was any better, the sun's shining. It's a beautiful fall day. Well, technically fall is Sunday. Did you know that? I did not know that. So now you know. I know that. And we are coming to you live from the Wall Coffee Roasters in beautiful downtown Acheson. That's right. So if you hear some coffee noises in the background, it's because we are live at the Wall Coffee Roasters. You might hear the coffee machine or some people talking, but we love the ambiance here. And if you have never been to the Wall Coffee Roasters, you need to come. It's awesome. It's amazing. This is where we do our podcasts and we're very excited. And we are very excited this morning about our very special guest, Jennifer. We are, but before we introduce our guest, we would like to give a shout out to our gold corporate sponsors, which include the MyShak Group of Companies, Genics and Parkland County. That's right. Without them, we could not do what we do. So thank you very much for all of them. Actually, Cam, there's one more shout out I want to quickly give. I want to give a shout out to Hannah. So for those that don't know Hannah, Hannah is our Business Engagement Coordinator with the Acheson Business Association. But Cam, she helps us do this podcast. That's right. She does all the back end work for us. She makes sure that we get downloaded and uploaded onto all of our sites. And Hannah does an amazing job. So thank you, Hannah. We appreciate that. Now we can introduce our very special guest. So for those guests listening, if you've ever been to our Acheson Business Association Golf Tournament, you will know our next guest. So I am really excited to introduce Murray McCourt, who is the GM, executive professional, and part owner of The Ranch Golf and Country Club. So welcome Murray. Well, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Hey Murray, good to have you here. Thank you for taking the time. Busy season this year. Yeah, absolutely. It's still rocking, but another month or so. Right on. Then we'll close the doors on the 204 season What shuts down the golf season? A specific date because we always want to close down on a specific date so our ground staff has the proper time to get the course ready for winter. We're very well known for always being one of the best conditioned golf courses in the Edmonton area. And part of that reason is we close down on a specific date to do all the work that's required to make sure that the golf course has the best chance possible to get through the winter in a good way. Right. And there's no doubt The Ranch, in my opinion, is one of the best courses around. I've been on the course a few times and it's awesome. It's amazing. You guys do an amazing job. Yeah, I certainly appreciate that. At one time, we were ranked in the top 100 golf courses in the country. And more recently, we were rated by value. Value is a big part of our business model and we were ranked number one golf course in Edmonton for value, number two in Alberta, number 30 in all of Canada. Fantastic. That's incredible. A very highly regarded facility in golf course. No question. Awesome. Okay. Well, let's kick it off by getting to get to know you a little bit, Murray. So tell us a little bit about yourself. Where did you grow up? Yeah, I'm small town Alberta boy. I grew up in Stettler, Alberta. My parents still live there and it was a great place to grow up. As you know, I had all kinds of access to the golf course. I'd get up and ride my bike to the golf course and play the nine-hole golf course around and around all day. And when it was too dark to play, I'd ride my bike home. But so that was great to have that type of access to a golf course. But yeah, Stettler is a great small town to grow up in in Alberta. And so you said you brought your... How old were you when you first started riding your bike to the golf course every day and playing golf? You know what? I didn't get into golf until a little later. I was grade nine, like 14 years old. And my best friend growing up said, Hey, let's go golfing. And so I'm like, Golf? Okay, sure. And so, yeah, it was kind of a whirlwind. I got really good, really fast without any lessons. I was actually playing... Well, I ended up going to college in San Diego to the most prestigious golf management school in the world at the time. And, but I also played a little bit on the golden State Tour when I was 19 years old while I was living down there. And so, started at 14, no lessons I was playing, turned pro when playing on a pro tour. So... Well, yeah, and that's... So I read your book the other night, and it's fascinating. Great book. Take us on that journey a little bit. Like, tell us a little bit about that. So, so sort of the educational, like the California experience. Just share with us a little bit about how all that went. Well, it was a crazy experience in the beginning because I grew up in small town Alberta of 5,000 people and I moved to San Diego, California. Like, the shell shock of being around that many people was something else. But, you know, I knew that I was passionate about golf and I wanted to make a career in golf. And, you know, so I applied. There was, San Diego Golf academy is the most prestigious golf management school, though it doesn't exist anymore. But, you know, I applied and, you know, was very fortunate to get in. I had applied to some other golf management schools in the States as well, but San Diego was the one that you wanted to go to. And the school is right on a 27-hole golf course. So I would go to school in the morning from 8 until noon, grab a hot dog and a bottle of water at the snack shack for lunch. And I'd be on the tee every day. Every day golfing. Every day playing golf. That's amazing. Yeah, that was a lot of fun. But, you know, the opportunity to go to that school was special. The people that taught me how to teach golf, not that I teach golf anymore. We have lots of staff at The Ranch to do with, not me, but the people that taught me how to do it were people that taught PGA and LPGA Tour players. So pretty good people to teach me how to teach golf. And how you learn to run a tournament is in the third semester of school there. As I said, the school was on a golf course. We had a school tournament every Friday. So those tournaments were ran by the students and learning how to run golf tournaments. I don't think people understand what it takes to run a tournament. I mean, we know a little bit on the periphery of putting it together on our end. But I don't think people understand what it takes for a golf course to put together a full-blown tournament. Well, for sure. And on the other side, you guys with the Acheson Business Association Tournament. That's a big tournament. Your work is astronomical as well in getting the players, getting the sponsors and all that type of thing. But yeah, a lot goes into it from a golf course perspective. The Ranch were the busiest tournament golf course in the province. We do 170, 180 tournaments a year. So a lot of days, we have two, three, four tournaments happening in a day. So the coordination of all that and the banquet space and how it works on the golf course is pretty special. So from California, you went to? Well, I moved back to Canada. I had a lot of job offers coming out of the school that I did to become an assistant pro back here in Canada, but I chose Wolf Creek just out in Ponoka. Great course. It was ranked number 14 in the country, and it was close to home, 40 minutes from Stettler. So I thought that was a great opportunity for me to cut my teeth in the golf industry at Wolf Creek. And it was a fabulous experience. I learned so much from the Vold family who owned it at the time. And great golf course to play. I was able to play a fair amount when I was working there. But it was a great place to learn and on the job. I learned lots at school, obviously, but learning on the job is certainly pretty valuable. It's a way to do it. And that was a great spot for me to do it. Okay, and from there, how long were you there? I was there for three years. I ended up getting pretty lucky. I ended up getting a head pro job when I was 23 years old. So, golf course just south of Calgary called the Nanton Golf Club. You know, in hindsight, maybe it was a little, you know, arrogant of me to think that I was ready to be a head pro at 23, but you know, with the schooling I had and the work that I'd put in, I felt I was ready. So, you know, I made that move to apply for head pro jobs. And I had a few opportunities and I got hired there and it turned out fabulous. For them and for me, I ended up staying there for 12 years, hired as the head pro, ended up becoming the manager and the food and beverage at Nanton, after my third year there was my own private business. So I actually paid the golf course rent to lease it out. And then all the sales and revenue was mine. So that cut my teeth into learning the food and beverage aspect of a golf course. And that's one of the big things in golf, is your skill set has to be so diverse. You're running a restaurant, you're managing the grounds operation, you're running a store basically in the pro shop, and on top of all the golf things, and the administration, the marketing, the skill set that you need to be truly successful, is very diverse. So you've touched on it a little bit. I don't think people know when you say you are a golf pro. So what like... What does it mean? Yeah, yeah. For the longest time I've heard... I have a friend who's a golf pro in Vancouver, and I always wondered what exactly does that mean? Do you play golf every day, six times a day? What does that mean? I see, a lot of people think that. Right. You know, the PGA in Canada is called the PGA of Canada, but it used to be called the Canadian PGA. And so a lot of people said that CPGA stands for Can't Play Golf Anymore, because you're so darn busy running your facility and teaching lessons or whatever it is that you do that you don't have time to play golf. And so that is the case for a lot of golf pros for sure. And you become a golf professional because you love the game. And then kind of stinks that when you love the game so much and then you get into the business and you can't necessarily play as much as you want to. But you know, work gets in the way of fun for all of us. But as a golf professional, there's so many different aspects of being a golf professional now. You can be a teaching professional. You can be a club fitter. You can be a head professional of a golf course and run the golf operations. Or you can be like myself and run the entire operation of a golf course and oversee everything. So there's lots of different avenues in the golf business to be a golf professional. So it's not just one thing that a golf professional is. So you're not playing golf all day. Misconception, people. Don't think I'm a golf pro to do that. Yeah. So now I play a fair amount now. But like I said, I retired from teaching. We have assistant pros that do a lot of the teaching. I would rather spend time playing golf than teaching golf or practicing and whatnot. But there's weeks where I don't play a lot, like once a week. I typically always play once a week. But I still play a lot of events, charity events and PGA events. So 10 to 15 tournaments a year I plan. So the fun rounds, there isn't very many of those. Once a week on Sundays is a fun round. And then the other rounds are typically competitive or in a charity event for me. So you were in Nanton for 12 years. Why the change? What struck that change for you? Well, there was a lot of reasons, really. I mean, there was some personal reasons in that. But really in Nanton, I had envisionments of staying there forever. And the facility, the golf course there is great for a small town, but the facilities really aren't. And they are still the same facilities today. And I have been gone for 18 years. And I kind of was working on a deal with the Board of Directors there, where I would sign a lifetime contract. And we would build a new clubhouse together, where I would pay a significant portion of the clubhouse, because I was making all the money off the food and beverage. And they would have this great facility. And so we'd be partners, literally, for the rest of my career. And some of the people in the community felt that maybe the golf course would be making the money that I was making off the food and beverage instead of me. And so the board kind of came off of that idea a little bit. And so it kind of became a 10-year employment agreement. And maybe that's a little long. So I ended up signing a five-year employment agreement. And I'm like, well, you know, I want this to end on my terms and not on somebody else's terms. And if people are thinking that I was making too much money because the food and beverage is my own private business or whatever, I could see that being a reason that they might want to make a change at some point in the future. Even though I turned the golf course from a place that was empty all the time to it was a zoo and making good money and everything like that. And it was just a happening place, but people were maybe thinking that I was making a, they didn't really know. But anyways, I just decided, you know, I'm going to start looking for other opportunities. Edmonton was more home base for my family. My grandparents were living up here, lots of aunts and uncles, cousins and whatnot. So I was missing a lot of family functions and whatnot. And so I wanted to prioritize my family a little bit more and get closer to them. And, you know, The Ranch opportunity came up and, you know, at one time, top 100 course in the country. Yeah, it seemed like a pretty, pretty good opportunity. That was I enjoyed that part of the book, kind of your whole journey into The Ranch and that. And and I think there was one that they asked you at one time and you said no, turn them down the first time. That's actually not the way it planned out. Okay. That story is kind of a crazy story. As I applied for the job and I felt like, I was going away on vacation to the Dominican Republic. Right. And this time, cell phones weren't necessarily a thing. That's dating myself a little bit. But so I didn't take a cell phone with me. I didn't have a cell phone to take with me to Mexico or to the Dominican Republic. And I didn't think I was getting the job. And I went on this vacation and the day I left, they phoned and offered me the job. Right. But I didn't have a phone with me. So my first day I get back, a week later, I listen to voicemails and I'm like, oh, The Ranch called me and offered me a job. So the next morning I phoned and said, yeah, I'd love the job I've taken. They said, well, we hadn't heard from you for a week. We assumed you didn't want it. So they started to go in a different direction. Right. Oh, man. So anyways, a year later, I'd heard rumors that that person that they ended up bringing in was leaving. And so I just called up a couple of the owners that I had met with the previous year and said, hey, I'm still very interested in this job. And they're like, oh, you are? And it was over. They just gave me this job. So it worked out in the end. It did all work out. Absolutely. Yeah. For our younger listeners, they wouldn't understand the whole voice mail, but you probably had an answering machine at the time. The concept of no cell phone. Really? There was a time when you had no cell phone? But it all worked out for you, and that's the great part. So I want to go, I want to ask you, the thing I love in your book, you are a diehard Chicago. Oh, yes, I am. You are a die. Now, come on now. You live in Alberta. You live in Stettler, sort of right in the middle, right between Calgary, Edmonton. So how do you become a Chicago fan in Stettler, Alberta? Because when, I've always been a sports nut. Right. Well, Murray, you played hockey. Oh, yeah. I played a lot of sports. Yeah. I was the GM of a junior hockey team. That's right. 11 years as well. Really good one too. But anyways, with the Blackhawks, when I was really young, there wasn't the Edmonton Oilers. Right. Yes, true enough. And so Dennis Savard was a very special hockey player, a spinorama, and I'm like, yeah, that's my boy. And so I became a Blackhawks fan and stayed loyal through and through. Now, Oilers are my second favorite team. I'm very fortunate that since I've been up here, I got into the sports circles up here, and I've been very good friends with lots of Edmonton Oilers over the years. And like just yesterday, I was visiting with Evan Bouchard when I bumped into him, and Craig McTavish when I bumped into him and whatnot. So I'm very close with the Oilers organization, but they all know that I'm a Blackhawks person. I grew up in Edmonton as well. And yeah, there weren't, I know again, the younger crowd, hard to believe that Edmonton didn't have a pro team at the time. We have to remember the Oilers came from Indianapolis. That's where they came from. No, sorry, that's not true. Gretzky came from Indianapolis, yeah. So really the Oilers came from Indianapolis. That's right. Gretzky was the Oilers. So in my younger days, it was the Oil Kings. We followed the Oil Kings a lot, Bill Hunter and the whole thing. But I just thought that was fascinating. You were a Blackhawks fan and that was kind of cool. So you probably had an original six team that you were a fan of. Well, I'm not going to say Toronto because it's never been Toronto. So it probably would have been Boston. That's who I would have, you know, Bobby Orr was the guy for sure. Yeah, good choice. Yeah, so yeah, so I understand where you're coming from a little bit on that. But for our younger listeners, they're like Edmonton was always here. No, the Oilers weren't always here. So that's kind of cool. So yeah, you played a lot of sports. Tell us a little bit about you. You were the GM of a hockey team. Tell us about that. Well, I was again, always a sports fan. And I played, but I mean, I wasn't a great player. It was more of that fighter, a mucking up kind of player. But I was down in Nanton as a head pro. I lived in High River and there was a golf show in Okotoks, which is just between High River. And I was there representing the golf course and went on. And this gentleman came up and started talking to me. And at that time, in the junior hockey, the final was Okotoks against Stettler, my old hometown. And he was the GM of the Foothills Bisons, now Okotoks Bisons in Okotoks. And I'm like, oh, I'm from Stettler. I'm going to the game after. And so him and I struck up a little bit of a friendship over bonding over hockey and that going on. And so I went to the game. He visited me in the game and kind of long story short, the next year, partway through the year, he was a banker and he was being transferred to Lethbridge. He said, you're going to need to take over for me. And at that time, I was 24. I'm barely older than the players. The players were up to 21 years old. Yeah. Yeah. And so I took over the team and was the GM for 11 years, won the championship, eight of the 11 years I was there, including the last six years in a row. And in junior hockey, that's pretty good. The players age out. For sure. You get a few good ones and you get a big high and you maybe have some success and then they go away and then you drop back off until you can find something. But I just reloaded the team every year and boy, we were a juggernaut. Yeah. Wow. Fantastic. So you're a golf pro, you're a hockey GM. You had a lot going on. Well, I haven't done hockey now since I moved in. So I've been here at The Ranch now for 18 years. So out of the hockey world for sure for a while now. And that's unless my, I have a six-year-old kid. So unless he gets into hockey, my hockey days are in the past for sure. Does he golf yet, Murray? Oh, he's been, he can hit the ball 50 yards in the air when he was one, just before he turned two. He could hit it 50 in the air. Tiger Woods, here we come. He backed off a little from that, but he still loves it. There's no question. Yeah. Well, that's great. That's probably kind of cool having a dad as a golf pro. I think that'd be kind of a cool thing. Well, yeah, he loves it for sure. Yeah, that's kind of cool. So go ahead. Well, so Murray, you've done a lot in your career. I mean, you are a host of a golf show. You've written a book. What's next? It's an interesting question. I get asked that a lot and I hope nothing. I love what I do. I love The Ranch and I'm so passionate about The Ranch and continuing to make it the success that it is. And I just finished season six of my radio show that I had for six years. And I absolutely love doing that. Maybe even as much or more than running the golf course. You know, the book kind of came off of some of that and whatnot. I'm not going to write another book because that's a lot of work. Yeah, it was a one and done, but very, very proud that I did that. And what I really love about it, because it gets pigeonholed somewhat as a golf book and kind of on purpose with the name and the cover and whatnot. But ultimately, it's a business book. Yeah, it was. I thoroughly enjoyed it. The last, I think the last half of the book, it was fascinating. Being in business, working in business. Yeah, I was reading and rereading over the weekend, going through, because I thought, you know, you did a masterful job. Oh, I appreciate that. Really, you did. And the best part was, is knowing you live it. Like, it's not, you're just not writing theory. You actually live this. These are the business principles you live by and operate by. And I thought, OK, so he knows what he's talking about. These are good principles in business. And that's what I love about the fact that I did that, is when people that are out, not in the golf business, they own any type of business. They reach out to me and they're like, I read your book. I'm like, thanks so much for doing that. I've got so many great take aways from that, that I'm going to revamp a bunch of things in my business to follow what you've done. And that makes me feel very proud and happy that I wrote the book and was able to share some of my thoughts and ideas. Tell us a little bit about The Ranch. So you did, at the beginning, we talked a little bit about it. The Ranch is located here in Acheson. Tell us a little bit about the course. Well, it opened in 1989, so it's been around for a while now. And in its early days, it got lots of notoriety, hosted four Canadian tour events, which was great to get the name of it out there and get it on the radar as a top place to play. And it was, like I said, ranked in the top 100 golf courses in the country. And you know, so it started off well. And then it kind of fell off the radar a little bit. And you know, I can't necessarily speak to exactly why I wasn't here then, but then I came in and, you know, I'm not gonna lie when I first came in, I was so excited. I'd never been on the property before. And I'm like, man, I'm the GM of top 100 golf course in the country, and I can't wait for this. And I get there when the snow melts, and like all the range mats are turned up like this. There's like six different carpets throughout the building, seven different colors of paint, and everything's just beat down and run down. And I'm like, what the heck is this? What did I do? And then, you know, they didn't have a halfway house, so the restaurant was basically like a cafeteria. And I'm like, oh man, I'm gonna have to roll up my sleeves. I got a lot of work to do here. And I embraced that and, you know, I inherited a team of people and some of them are still with me today, because they're that fabulous and that passionate and loyal to The Ranch. And, you know, my ideas and philosophies and they just bought into me and what I wanted to accomplish there. And they're still with me and that's fabulous. I had some other people that weren't there. And so, it took a long time to get the staff. And I can tell you now, like, I have the most amazing team ever. All of the men in the team has been there for a long time. They're not going anywhere. It's such a great culture and a great place to be part of. And I'm just proud to go to work every day and work together with these people to make The Ranch all that it can be. And, you know, so it took some time to get, when I first got there, to get it to where it is now, that I would say this, and this is something that you guys would have read in the book, is The Ranch, it's really important for every business to really know and understand who they are and then really be it. And at that time, The Ranch was trying to be a little bit everything and trying to appease everybody. And in that process, you end up appeasing nobody because you're really not good at anything. And so I figured out what I thought The Ranch needed to be. And I learned who I wanted us to be and got that ingrained in our team, the ones that were with me that were going to be part of it long term. And we just rolled with it from there and we're still there. We are who we are, we know who we are, and we're really good at it. That was after reading the book and having been at The Ranch a number of times, it just clicked to me. You know who you are and you do what you do to excellence because you know who you are. And the book confirmed that, but it just sort of reaffirmed it having been there. And so I think, yeah, I think you found your niche and that's really important in business. That's really important for business people. Again, how many tournaments do you do a year? You do... Right now we're in the 180 neighborhood. So yeah, multiple tournaments a day sometimes. And that in itself is to me pretty incredible that you're doing that. And like ours, the ABA Tournament full. We did an Adeara Tournament this year, which went really well with you guys. Their first one, they were so ecstatic. I sat on that committee. They were so ecstatic after they were done. All they did was rant and rave at our follow up meeting about how great The Ranch was. And they talked about you. They talked about your staff. They talked about all of that. And they were just so excited about all of that. So that's fabulous to hear. I love hearing those stories. Yeah, so well done, you know, for a non-profit organization, you really, they raised a buck, we raised a bucket load of money that day. And so that was really great. So yeah, it was good. Final question? Final question. Final question. Question we ask all of our guests. Murray, what is the best piece of advice you've been given either personally or professionally that you carry with you to this day? Wow, the best piece of advice. We purposely don't tell you this ahead of time. Yeah, no kidding. You really got to make me think. But you know, I'm going to say this was something that somebody said to me a long time ago. And then I really lived it with hockey because it kind of started with a hockey thing. And then I just transferred it to business because it's a saying and some advice that really works in all aspects of your life. And it's you get what you give. The more you put into something, the more you're going to get back out of it. And if you're getting involved in something, whether it's a business, whether it's a charity, whether it's your family, anything, if you don't really work at it and put the time and effort into it that it deserves, you're not going to get the rewards out of being involved in whatever it is that you can. And so, I really, that makes so much sense. And so, every single thing that I do, I put 100% of me in it. And because of that, I won't necessarily get involved in things that I don't feel I can or want to give what I can. So, if I'm going to do it, I'm all in and we'll make it a success. That's what we'll do. Yeah, that is fantastic advice. Not only just in business, but for all of us, because it's very easy to get sort of multiple tracked and you do it good, but not great, but the things you do focus on, you do great. And that's fantastic. Tell us about your golf show. Where can you hear that? Well, it was on TSN 1260 for five and a half years. I heard they heard by the wayside. Bell Media decided to kibosh it. So now I'm with the Edmonton Sports Talk. It's over for the year. It's 20 weeks a year. I'm on a second show as well, I can tell you. But Edmonton Sports Talk, you can listen to it on iHeartRadio, TuneIn Radio. It's live on YouTube for now 12 hours a day and edmontonsportstalk.com. So lots of different ways to consume it. So my show is called the VIP Golf Show. It's every Sunday morning from 8 to 10, from late April till mid September. And then I'm also on a show called the Hangout on Edmonton Sports Talk. It's Monday through Fridays from 9 to 11. I'm on almost every Monday in the off season from golf. And once in a while on Mondays, during the, when I can fit it in. Right. And it's talking all sports. So I get to go there and talk like I'm well connected in the Elk's world, in the Oiler's world. And so I get to talk about all sports and not just golf. Fantastic. When I'm on the Hangout. So there you go folks. After you're done listening to the ABA Coffee In The Park podcast, you want to head over to Murray's show and listen to that. Murray, where can people find your book? Amazon. It's called outside The Tee Box. You just go search it on Amazon. It's only $20 and it will be at your door in a day or two. That's right. And The Ranch website is? Theranchgolf.com Great. Fantastic. Well, I'm telling you, I didn't know what to expect coming into this one. Just, I read the book and I thought, okay, this is going to be interesting. But I'm really excited. This is really great. I really appreciate you sharing with us, sharing your story with us. I have a respect, a new respect for you as a person and as a business person. I think your principles and your thoughts in this whole area are just fantastic. So folks, you got to get this book. Business guys and girls, you got to get this book. It's really great and you got to listen to Murray on the radio and you got to go play The Ranch. I like all those things. Yeah. Get on it people. That's right. Get on it. Jennifer, good show. It was a great show once again. Just a reminder that the Business Awards Gala is coming up. It's Saturday, September 28th. This is the final week for tickets. And in fact, Murray and The Ranch are nominees and finalists for Associate Member of the Year. Right on. That's going to be great. Sorry, not Associate Member of the Year. Sorry, Medium Business of the Year. Yeah, that's right. I'm looking forward then. My wife and I are going to be there. It's a great night when there's going to be some cool stuff going on. So we're excited that you're going to be there. And folks, are we sold out yet? Pretty close, I think. Pretty close. So if you don't have tickets, you better get them, because otherwise people will be scalping them at the door. No, they won't. Everybody wants in. So it's going to be fantastic. Well, Jennifer, good show. Another great show. Thank you, everybody, for listening. Hey, tell your friends, tell your neighbors, tell your business associates, tell your enemies, wherever you get your podcast, you can download this. You can also find it on www.Achesonbusiness.com. You can download it there. And again, everybody, thank you so much for listening. I think we're over 1200 or 1300 downloads already. More than that. And this is episode number 14. So we just want to say thank you, everybody. We really appreciate it. We have listeners all around the world and we're just really excited. So stay tuned. Join us next week. Thanks, everybody. Thanks, everyone.